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 Gun Documentary ALERT: Tonight

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Radionut39

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PostSubject: Gun Documentary ALERT: Tonight   Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:07 pm


Tonight! Remington Under Fire

Lawsuits Target the Remington Model 700-series rifle.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/39554936/

SHOW TIMES US
Premieres Wednesday, October 20th 9p | 10p | 12a | 1a ET

Asia Pacific (SIN/HK)
Saturday, October 23rd 10p
Sunday, October 24th 2a | 9p
Monday, October 25th 4a

Australia (AEDT)
Saturday, October 23rd 9p
Sunday, October 24th 5a | 1p | 10p
Monday, October 25th 7a
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newhall



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PostSubject: Re: Gun Documentary ALERT: Tonight   Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:09 pm

I missed it. But would love to hear a discussion on it.
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oldradiospook

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PostSubject: Re: Gun Documentary ALERT: Tonight   Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:48 pm

Not a gun owner but I always wanted to use this image. So here it is one time.



Sarcasm. Don't flame me. affraid


Last edited by oldradiospook on Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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mikeinkcmo



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PostSubject: Re: Gun Documentary ALERT: Tonight   Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:27 am

Well said.
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x-warp



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PostSubject: Re: Gun Documentary ALERT: Tonight   Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:38 am

ibtl
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Johncb



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PostSubject: Re: Gun Documentary ALERT: Tonight   Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:36 am

The whole point of the program was not gun control. It was about a popular rifle that was flawed and the lengths that Remington went to in denying the fact that it was flawed. It's about a company protecting it's "bottom line".

Don't make this discussion about gun control,... it's not about that. It's about a company that should take responsibility for a malfunctioning product,... just like we would expect any other company to. Instead,... it uses the "gun control" fear thingy to derail rational discussion and disguise the fact that it's product has a problem.

Guns are tools. Remington makes some fine products,... but this one is flawed. I sure don't want a tool that malfunctions like this one does.
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Steve Johnson

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PostSubject: Re: Gun Documentary ALERT: Tonight   Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:11 am

I read an article that the inventor of the trigger urged Remington to add a bracket to it to prevent the problem but Remington didn't because it added five cents to the cost of each rifle.

A lot of companies today only use designs that will make the product last till it's out of warranty.

Off topic but the other thing that's bugging me is the new throw away bathroom towel containers.
What a waste. They are trying to sell them on fear of germs. Give me a break. I've been using bathroom towels for 58 years and I'm not dead yet. Just wash the freakin' towels once in a wile.

OK, off the soap box for now.
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Mark D



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PostSubject: Re: Gun Documentary ALERT: Tonight   Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:34 am

Well, I didn't get to see that show. Didn't know about it, and it appears to have been on a cable channel anyway, so no chance to see it.
But a quick google search brought up a lawsuit by one Mr. Dale Rambo. Mr. Rambo was apparently loading his Remington 700 when the thing went off (I hate it when that happens...) and shot his son in a arm. Son survived, but damages are claimed in the lawsuit.
Ok, I can't argue that there is a problem with the firing mechanism on the 700 series. But still, this dude was loading his firearm with it lying across a gun case, or something, according to the article I read. It was pointed in a direction where it could cause bodily harm to a person, the bolt must have been closed or it would not have fired, and he was working with it in a situation like that.
So, ok, Remington might deserve to be sued for not taking action once they knew of a potential safety defect. But still, if this guy had followed just one of a number of safety precautions that I believe we all know, or should know before using a firearm, then sonny boy wouldn't have been shot.
Lawsuites are fine, and Remington really needs to do a recall. But still, nobody would have been hurt by this if people followed the basic safety procedures. Or at least not so many people. I understand there are a whole bunch of lawsuits on this. That means a whole bunch of hurt or killed people. It doesn't have to be that way!
Mark D.
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oldradiospook

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PostSubject: Re: Gun Documentary ALERT: Tonight   Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:01 am

Johncb wrote:
The whole point of the program was not gun control. It was about a popular rifle that was flawed and the lengths that Remington went to in denying the fact that it was flawed. It's about a company protecting it's "bottom line".

Don't make this discussion about gun control,... it's not about that. It's about a company that should take responsibility for a malfunctioning product,... just like we would expect any other company to. Instead,... it uses the "gun control" fear thingy to derail rational discussion and disguise the fact that it's product has a problem.

Guns are tools. Remington makes some fine products,... but this one is flawed. I sure don't want a tool that malfunctions like this one does.
I'm sorry John. Seriously, I did not think it might inflame some one. But you are right. So I have changed strategy. But my question is: Why was the kid standing at the business end of a weapon as it was being loaded? I always learned to stay behind the weapon, never at the business end. Unless you were game. I'm not game, well maybe gamey.
Happy Halloween. Man that would scare the devil back to Texas.
Very Happy
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Radionut39

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PostSubject: Re: Gun Documentary ALERT: Tonight   Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:35 am

I watched the Remington Underfire documentary and I think a few
valid points were made as to Remington did appear to disregard their own
Designers concerns.
Mike Walker, the 700's Designer, is 98 and still making guns in his workshop,
was asked if Remington was the kind of company to allow injuries/deaths to occur
over (at the time) a 5 1/2 cent modification? He Replied "No.".. "Then what was it?"
Mike Walker: "Stupidity."

Smith & Wesson has forever made a fine Revolver - But, a revolver, that if
dropped, could discharge.
When Strum Ruger Began producing revolvers, they were unable to produce one using
the standard S&W style 'firing pin on hammer' design- (although S&W was not required to
change their design) for this very reason. Ruger then developed a Trigger/Hammer Block system,
which requires the trigger to be pulled, simultaneously raising/lowering a block ,engaging
the hammer to the pin.

As far as a possible gun control aspect to the Remington situation, being well aware of
the Machiavellian machinations of the anti-gun lobby, it is possible another back-door
attempt at Control via "Safety" is afoot. Possibly.
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Johnnysan



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PostSubject: Re: Gun Documentary ALERT: Tonight   Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:58 am

I saw the program. Sure did lower my opinion of Remington.

Absolutely amazing how a company could know of a serious problem (since 1947) and do nothing about it. Many people were killed or injured with the 700 series (and 600s) with a flaw that allowed the gun to fire when engaging the safety.

Only to save a few cents!
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Mark D



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PostSubject: Re: Gun Documentary ALERT: Tonight   Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:52 pm

One thing to consider is that this is a TV 'news documentary' that could have been made with an agenda. Most of the time, these so-called documentaries are one sided, and the information in them is cherry picked to support the topic of said documentary. Remember the CBS(?) one on the Chevy pickup trucks blowing up? They couldn't get one to blow up, so they used pyrotechnics to make one go off when they hit it with another car.
If we don't have all the facts, and I don't think we do on this forum, we can't really be judge and jury of Remington.

That said, I have a Remington model 10 shotgun. One day, it took to going off just from my pumping another round into the chamber. The first time it did it, I was like, WOW! What did I do? I couldn't think of anything stupid that I'd done. So, I tested it with several rounds, and it didn't do anything wrong. But I kept it up, and finally, ready to give up but with one more round loaded into the chamber, it went off. Fortunately, I always have made it a point to not point a firearm at anyone for any reason at any time. I was alone anyway, that day.
I took it to a gunsmith and had him fix it. It's fine now.
It isn't that it's a Remington so much as it was just too worn out. It got a full rebuild, so to speak.
Could one suppose that some of these Remington 700s are just not in very good condition, causing them to become unreliable? Some of the rifles in question seem to have been around for a long time.

Mark D.
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jack shirley



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PostSubject: Re: Gun Documentary ALERT: Tonight   Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:16 pm

Not addressing Remington in particular but this is the peril that manufacturers have to deal with these days.

"Folding baby high chair could pinch fingers"

"Lemon-fragrance dishwashing liquid is not for consumption"

And the king of them all - "coffee may be hot"

Well DUH!

Now I'm all in favor of holding manufacturers accountable when they do something deceptive that results in injury to the user but having to engineer a product so that any ignoramus fool is protected is an unachievable goal.

"Don't stand in front of a gun"

Is there a Warning Label for that or was Darwin right?


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Shanghai Jack



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PostSubject: Re: Gun Documentary ALERT: Tonight   Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:19 pm

Steve Johnson wrote:
Off topic but the other thing that's bugging me is the new throw away bathroom towel containers.
What a waste. They are trying to sell them on fear of germs. Give me a break. I've been using bathroom towels for 58 years and I'm not dead yet. Just wash the freakin' towels once in a wile.

OK, off the soap box for now.


After you get out of the shower you should be the cleanest thing in the room. By extension the towel should get cleaner by rubbing it on your body. If this makes sense, you've been reading the forums too long.
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Steve Johnson

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PostSubject: Re: Gun Documentary ALERT: Tonight   Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:27 pm

Shocked It does make sense.
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Johncb



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PostSubject: Re: Gun Documentary ALERT: Tonight   Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:51 pm

oldradiospook wrote:
I'm sorry John. Seriously, I did not think it might inflame some one. But you are right. So I have changed strategy. But my question is: Why was the kid standing at the business end of a weapon as it was being loaded? I always learned to stay behind the weapon, never at the business end. Unless you were game. I'm not game, well maybe gamey.
Happy Halloween. Man that would scare the devil back to Texas.
Very Happy

Don't be sorry,...lol! I was not meaning to say that what you said was wrong, or not funny. I was merely heading off any direction it might take towards the same-O rants that I saw coming. Remington makes some fine products. I use many of them,... and like you NEVER do I let anything in front of the business end unless I intend to shoot it.

However,... that does not excuse Remington or any other company from making a defective product. Guns, of all things, really need to be made safe. This is a safety issue with a product, not someone trying to take guns,... although Remington tried to play that card.

Remington blatantly ignored this issue for many years.That is simply not right,...morally, or business wise. I've known about this "trigger issue" for a long time. It is one reason I never bought one of these rifles.

It's approaching Deer hunting season here. We have two,...one for Bows and one for Guns. Gun season opens a week before Thanksgiving. They call it "Opening weekend of Deer season",... I call it "beer and bullets" weekend. Because all these fools do is drag 6 cases of beer and bullets to "Deer Camp",... get drunk and shoot at anything that's moving. "If it's brown, it's down !" That's the motto these morons use,...trouble is ,...they can't really tell what they are shooting through that hangover or drunken stupor. They certainly don't need a defective weapon to add to the mix.

I hunt,....but you will NEVER see me out there on opening weekend. Too many fools in the woods!

John
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Radionut39

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PostSubject: Re: Gun Documentary ALERT: Tonight   Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:41 pm


Well, That is bad, John.
One should no more Drink and Shoot than Drink and Drive. No
I would even support a Ticket with a heavy Fine, for doing so.
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